The Baptism of the Holy Spirit – and the gift of tongues

sunderland-revival-1907-lg-1 (1)Written by Jimmy Schools

When I first began my spiritual journey I was always intrigued by the verses that included “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”. This same statement was used in several gospels.

Luke 3:16 – John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Matthew 3: 11 I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Another intriguing section was Mark 16:15-18.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” [The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]

This note is included in most translations of the modern bible. It is not included in the KJV 1611, the Geneva Bible 1599 or the Douay-Rheims 1899.

These verses along with many others sparked me on this journey to get a better understanding of what God wanted all of us to learn. The following is a short summary of what I learned over the years. There are many different opinions of this subject. Please do not take my view as the final answer. This is a journey that each person should take on their own.

My first suggestion is to put aside what you have been told all your life, and read the gospel with a fresh new approach. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you the truth and what He needs you to see. There is no need for this to be controversial or divisive. Simply begin with a new openness and a strong desire to seek the truth for your own life.

Let’s begin by reading John 20:21 – Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

This was before the day of Pentecost. Shortly after this we read this:

Acts 1: 4-5 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Throughout the scripture we find two different types of baptisms. One was John’s baptism of water and repentance, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire.

I kept reading through Acts and saw more confirmation of these 2 separate events in a believer’s life. In Acts 8 Peter and John found new believers that had not received the Holy Spirit, they had simply been baptized in water….

Acts 8: 14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

18 When Simon saw (what did he see?) that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

Then in Acts 10 the reverse order happened. The Holy Spirit had been poured out on them for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. After that they were baptized with water.

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

In Acts 19 the 2 separate experiences are even more pronounced.

Acts 19:1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

These scriptures again clearly point out 2 difference baptism. Some people after reading these verses will accept the 2 difference experiences but have a problem accepting the speaking in tongues references or they will say it is not a gift for today’s times.

I think many churches today are not in sync with 1 Corinthians 14:39 on this subject. They come dangerously close to what this verse warns against.

1 Corinthians 14:39 – So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues.

There is almost a complete avoidance of 1 Corinthians 14 in most denominational churches of today. This is sad when Paul even wishes in verse 5 that we could all speak in tongues.

5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

What is the gift of tongues?

The bible points out that tongues are not meant for men.

1 Corinthians 14:2 – For those who speak in a tongue do not speak to other people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But those who prophesy speak to people for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4 Those who speak in a tongue edify themselves, but those who prophesy edify the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues.

Praying in tongues

Romans 8:26-27

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

1 Corinthians 14:14

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can the others, who are now put in the same situation as an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but the others are not edified.

Singing in tongues or the Spirit

Ephesians 5

17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,
What kind of arguments will you hear against the gift of tongues of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit today?

  • Many will say Tongues and Prophecy have ceased because 1 Corinthians 13 tells us they will cease when the Perfect comes. They claim that the “Perfect” is the canonization of the bible that happened over a first 300 years after the resurrection. Verse 12 makes it clear this is not what it is talking about. It tells us at that time we will see (Jesus) “face to face” and will know all things “fully”. Obviously that has not happened.

  • I think this verse is referring to a time when the church finally comes into perfect unity that leads to Christ return. See Ephesians 4 11-16 below:

  • Ephesians 4:11-16New King James Version (NKJV)

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

  • 1 Corinthians 13 New International Version (NIV)

13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness (Perfect) comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

  • Many will also say there is only one baptism referring to Ephesians 4:5 – one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

This verse is used a lot because it says “one baptism”. You can’t just pull this verse out without putting it in the full context of what is going on and who Paul is talking to. When you start reading from Ephesians 3 you will see that Paul was talking about God’s plan to join the Jews and Gentiles together. See verse 6.

6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

That is the baptism he is talking about. He is pointing out there is no difference between Jew and Gentile anymore.

Some final thoughts….

  • If Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever why would he give gifts to the early church and not to the latter day believers?
  • If I ask him for good gifts (like the gift of tongues, prophecy, gift of healing etc..) why would he not give them to me in light of the following verses?
  • Luke 11:11-13New King James Version (NKJV)

11 If a son asks for bread[a] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

  • Why would Paul spend so much time explaining proper use of the gifts (1 Cor 12,13 and 14) if it was important for the entire church?
  • Why would Paul say “Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy” if he knew that is was only for the 12 disciples?
  • According to John 20:21 the disciples received the Holy Spirit before the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. – Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

So if they already received the Holy Spirit could it be that on the day of Pentecost they were just “immersed or filled to over flowing, completely baptized by the fire that was promised in Luke 3:16 and Matthew 3:11?

  • Could it be that we need to be continually filled?

  • Ephesians 5:18-19King James Version (KJV)

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

  • 1 Corinthians 14:1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

My cessationists friends would have to add this footnote to this verse:

This verse only applies to the original 12 disciples…Well… and Paul and Steven.. Wait….and the 70 disciples Jesus sent out in Luke 10…… and also the 120 in the upper room. Basically God just inspired this instruction to confuse us and make us humble. Actually you can pretty much skip chapters 12, 13 and 14 of 1 Corinthians and the book of Acts for that matter. The book of Acts only purpose was to show us all the cool things he let the early church do. He then had the bible written so we could grow his church by telling others about all the cool things that only those 12 guys could do 2,000 years ago. This also means you should also ignore all the verses of Mark 16 after verse 16 because they are just too weird.

Yes this was an attempt at some sarcastic humor on the subject..

In closing I want to be clear in saying this is my personal understanding of this subject. In the context of Salvation this is small issue. It is not foundational or does it have any bearing on your salvation. If someone tells you must speak in tongues to be saved, they are wrong. On the other side, if someone tells you tongues are of the devil, they are very wrong. Take them back to 1 Corinthians 14:3.

The first question in this journey is have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior? After that step you can begin a new journey that will change your life for all eternity!!

Gifts

  1. Word of wisdom
  2. Word of knowledge
  3. Faith
  4. Gifts of healing’s
  5. Working of miracles
  6. Prophecy
  7. Discerning of spirits
  8. Different kinds of tongues
  9. Interpretation of tongues

1 Corinthians 12:28

Order

1st Apostles

2nd Prophets

3rd Teachers

After that: miracles then gifts of healing, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

The Wheat and the Tares – 70A.D.?

wheat & tares

For years whenever I heard a message on the parable of “The Wheat and the Tares” it was always from the perspective of the end time harvest, Rapture or the Second coming of Jesus. Recently after reading that section again I noticed something in verse 30. It’s states that the tares will be gathered and burned  first. This seems to conflict with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 that states that we (believers) who are alive will be caught up together with the dead in Christ that will rise first. It says nothing about the tares or unbelievers being dealt with first.

I think this parable is really referring to the the End of the Mosaic Old Covenant Age that happened with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. During that time over 1.1 million Jewish/unbelievers people were put to death but not one believer was killed. All the believers fled to the mountains. They heeded the words of Jesus in Matthew 24. He warned them so they were on guard for that time. This is is partial prederist view that I now believe. It has put so much of the bible in perspective for me along a better understanding of past covenants. I feel like I’m reading the bible again for the first time with a renewed optimistic excitement and adventure!

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Matthew 13:24-30)

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Did God limit us to 120 years?

Genesis 6:3 So the Lord said, “My spirit will not remain in humankind indefinitely, since they are mortal. They will remain for 120 more years.” (NET)

I think this is the most correct translation for this verse. It leans more to God saying that the destruction of man by flooding the earth would happen in 120 years. It was not giving a limit on how old a man can be. That doesn’t even fit the context when you read the entire chapter.

Also if you look at Genesis 11 we have a big problem:

  • Shem lived 500 years
  • Shelah lived 403 years
  • Eber lived 430 years
  • Peleg lived 209 years
  • Reu lived 207 years
  • Serug lived 200 years
  • Terah was 205 years
  •  Isaac lived to be 180 years old (Gen 25:38)

We just can’t blow these off as anomalies. These are 8 people that lived past the word given by God himself if we really believe he was limiting mans age. I think it’s clear that he was telling us how long it would be before the flooding of the earth.

Nothing earth shattering here but it does remind us to always remove our filters of what we have been “told” when we read the scriptures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE WRATH OF GOD… BY JONATHAN WELTON

angry-god
By Dr. Jonathan Welton….
I get the question a lot nowadays, “If Jesus took the wrath of God on the cross, how come He brought about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD?”
This question seems to be arising from those grappling with the reality of grace as well as stepping into good eschatology (www.Raptureless.com).
There exists some branches of the church that teach that Jesus was the sponge that soaked up all of God’s wrath at the cross thus making us “unpunishable.” Some go further and say that God no longer has any wrath after the cross.
With these questions about Wrath floating around, I decided to go back to my trusty Strong’s Concordance and look up every reference to “Wrath” from Matthew-Jude.
Here is what I have come to understand.
 
There is no indication that God poured out His wrath upon Jesus on the cross.
Jesus was the perfect lamb sacrifice and based upon the system of Old Testament Atonement/Propitiation; the Lamb was never punished with wrath because of the human owner’s sin. The animal merely stood in the place of the owner and shed its blood for the covenant to provide forgiveness. God did not punish God to free us from the wrath of God. Jesus shed His blood to cut a New Covenant with the Father to Forgive our sins and remember them no more. God didn’t make Jesus pay for our sins, Jesus and God created a New Covenant, which forgave us the debt of our sins. (Hebrews 8:6-13)
God has wrath before the cross.
The Old Testament has 151 references to the word Wrath, whereas the New Testament has 46. In Matthew 3:7 and Luke 3:7 we find John the Baptist rebuking the Pharisees and speaking of their future destruction in 70AD He says that the axe is already laid to the root and that they won’t be saved by claiming that Abraham is their father. He goes on and says of 70AD, “Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?” Also in Luke 21:23 Jesus speaks of the 70AD massacre of Jerusalem and refers to it as the great distress and the wrath upon the people.
God did have wrath after the cross
The death of the Perfect Lamb on the cross has provided us with a New Covenant of forgiveness. The Old Covenant provided Laws which when broken caused the Wrath of God to come upon people. Thus what Romans 4:15 says, “Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.” For those standing inside Christ in the New Covenant, there is absolutely NO wrath, judgment, or anger. Yet for those in the First Century that were not willing to enter into the New Covenant and in fact killed Jesus and persecuted the early church, there was wrath building up against them. “The law worketh wrath…”and the first century Pharisees clung to the law and built wrath up against themselves.
They were what Paul called the sons of disobedience
“Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” Eph 5:6
“For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:” Col. 3:6
1 Thessalonians gives us the clearest clues that the wrath of God was not poured out at the cross upon Jesus but was actually being filled up until the Days of Vengeance (Luke 21:22) when the Lord took His vengeance out on those that killed Him and declared judgment upon their own heads (Matthew 27:25). When God would avenge the early church in 70AD (Romans 12:19).
Notice the first century relevance of the following verses:
“Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.” 1 Thessalonians 1:10b
“For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thessalonians 5:9
“For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.” 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
Here is the skinny.
Jesus came as the King in the manger. He demonstrated His kingdom during His ministry. Jesus spoke of the New Covenant at the Last supper and inaugurated it upon the cross thus declaring that the establishment of the New Covenant was now “finished.” The Old Covenant although obsolete and outdated had not yet disappeared according to Hebrews 8:13. Therefore throughout the New Testament you have Jesus the King, His Kingdom has been established and is growing (Matthew 13:31-33) the New Covenant arrived at the cross but the Old Covenant has not disappeared yet.
This leads to those that are sons of disobedience which cling to the law which brings wrath (Rom 4:15), continuing to persecute the first century church until the wrath of God is filled up (1 Thess. 2:14-16) and poured out upon them in 70AD.
Did God still have wrath after the cross? Yes, the cross did nothing about the wrath of God. The wrath of God was connected to the Old Covenant system, which existed and continued until its final destruction in 70AD (Hebrew 8:13).
Why did God judge all those people in 70AD? God judged the Old Covenant and those that clung to the sinking ship drowned with it. Those the turned to the New Covenant of Christ were saved from the Day of Wrath. Josephus records that out of the 1.1 million Jews that were killed in the slaughter of 70AD, not one Christian died.
So to answer the question, does God still have wrath? No, we are under a New Covenant; and the Old Covenant that created wrath has been removed.
– Jonathan Welton
You can read more from his blog at http://disruptingculture.com/

The deception of sickness

I started this blog to provide a place to discuss subjects that don’t seem to work in the facebook format. There is nothing worse than a facebook thread that goes on and on forever and morphs into a mean name calling debate in the end.

Here is how this topic began today.  This is a copy of a facebook post from a friend with my comments. I removed their name.

Facebook friend –SICKNESS   How can we say, “It could never be God’s will for me to be sick”? If it was God’s will to bruise His own Son (Isaiah 53:10), why shouldn’t He bruise you? What shines forth and reveals God in your life is your absolute devotion to Him whether you are well or sick.

  • Jimmy Schools I see the answer in this in the preceding verse 5. ” But He was wounded for our transgressions,
    He was bruised for our iniquities;
    The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,

    And by His stripes we are healed. ” It is no different than him dying on the cross to pay for our sins. Through his suffering of the beatings he took on sickness. If we think it is our Fathers will for us to be sick then why would he tell us in James 5 to pray for the sick? Or why would he command us to go heal the sick in Matt 10:8? If he made us sick then we are praying against the will of our Father. I also look at it this way… Would you as a loving parent ever make your kids sick to teach them a lesson? No.. So neither would our Father in heaven who loves us even greater.
    1 hr · Like · 1
  •  Facebook friend – True but God uses our sickness to draw us closer to him. I believe God heals today and I believe we should pray for the sick but I also believe he uses it to his glory.
  • Jimmy Schools We can agree that people can draw closer to him in times of sickness. I just don’t see any scriptural evidence that God makes us sick. John 10:10 helps to make that clear to me, “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.”
    End of Post.

http://biblehub.com/greek/4982.htm